Maggie:
Hey everyone. I am so delighted to have Dr. Chavonne Perotte back with us today. We are both marriage coaches and both friends behind the scenes, and it is so fun to have her on. I know you’re going to learn so much today. I did think I should do an official introduction beyond, Chavonne is a beautiful human and I love her and you will too. So here’s the official introduction.
Maggie:
Chavonne has a PhD from John Hopkins University and is a trained health researcher who specializes in communication and intimate partnerships. And she uses her background in research to develop new tools and processes, to inspire and empower couples to love being married. Again, you know, we’re all about that on this show. So Chavonne is the host of the Love Marriage Again, podcast. And today she’s going to share with us her calm down method, which is a tool she created to help couples love being married. Welcome, Chavonne.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Hello, Maggie. Thank you for having me.
Maggie:
Thank you for saying yes.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Of course. Like who could ever say no to you?
Maggie:
Believe it or not, it can happen. It’s totally possible. My husband jokes that he is the immovable wall and I am the unstoppable force.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
I love that, I believe it.
Maggie:
He’s the one who can say no, lovingly. So I’m so happy to have you, not just because you’re amazing, but because I love this method, you’re going to share with us today, the calm down, and it’s really something for people to use when they feel triggered. So just tell me a little bit about, I know you included very specific things in the calm down process. So tell me just a little bit about like maybe when is it good to use it or how you approach each step in the process?
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yeah. So I think when you use it is every day, all the time, every minute. Right? So it’s one of those things where it’s funny, like it’s calm down, and like each one of the letters represents a part of the process, but I find that when, you know, when we go through all of them, I know at least for myself how I’ve used it is sometimes I just need one, like one letter that is the trigger to me to operate in a different way. And so I think that’s the very interesting thing about triggers in general, that no matter what, you know, your husband might be saying or doing, it’s like a knee jerk reaction.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And it happened so fast that you’re not even like conscious of it. You’re not even aware. And so having like a second layer trigger, it’s like, oh, I’m in the moment, I’m feeling this way, I’m wanting to see this thing. And just having something that’s quick and tangible for yourself that just reminds you like, oh no, like that’s not where I want to keep going. I want to pivot and calm myself down. And so having, at least for me, like an acronym, even the words just calm down itself, if you don’t even remember any of the actual steps of the process, it can really, really be helpful. And so I like things that are simple, you like things that are simple because real life is happening all of the time, there are trigger moments all of the time. And so the more tools and ways of managing our mind, we have the better for everyone.
Maggie:
And I think especially like, as we’re recording this it’s July of 2020, the world has been through some incredible events in the past few months of 2020. And one of the things I’ve been thinking about is we get triggered by events or things that happen, right. There are moments where we have that knee jerk reaction. I always like to think about it. Like when someone cuts you off in traffic and you see red and it’s just automatic, it’s not like you think, oh, I’m going to be upset now, you just are in that moment.
Maggie:
But what happens when you are triggered in every single moment over and over again, and you don’t even have a moment to recover from the first trigger and you’re triggered again, and then you start thinking or not really understanding, like you start thinking like triggers are normal and just feel this heightened sense of urgency all the time or annoyance or resentment. And I know, and I know both of us know and the people that we help and our coaching practices that sometimes in a relationship we get to these moments where we just think it’s normal to feel triggered all the time. And I think one of the things we want to really show you in this episode is that is not normal.
Maggie:
That is not thriving, that does not lead you to love being married. And if you’re going to be married, have a healthy one, like the stress of a toxic marriage literally is like the stress that causes the same type of effect in your body as smoking. And there’s some research around that if anyone wants to Google that they can, but it’s basically, if you’re going to be married, let’s make it as healthy as we can make it. And the calm down method is going to help you, just have something simple. I talk a lot about doability on the podcast. Like, it feels doable, it’s more likely that you’re actually going to practice it. And we did an episode called, Marriage Triggers 101, I’ll link to that in the show notes, because literally just pausing and breathing the moment that you just pause and breathe and allow yourself to choose your reaction instead of just honking emotional horn, like we would if we cutoff in traffic is so important.
Maggie:
So let’s start with the first one, which is consider the consequences. That’s the C in the calm down method. So consider the consequences. You sent me some notes. I just want to ask you a couple of things. It says what will it do to your connection as a couple and what will happen if you react in a negative way and how will you feel? So tell me a little bit about considering the consequences.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yeah, I think one of the things that I keep seeing happen over and over again is life and marriage of course, is about priorities. And so I think in those moments, when we are triggered, it feels like we don’t actually have a choice. It feels like we’ve been conditioned and taught to believe that we have to get upset about certain things. We have to complain about certain things or bring, you know, to our spouse’s attention, certain things. And so this step of considering the consequences, lets you decide, it puts you in the driver’s seat in terms of what is most important to you in the moment.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And so I’m sure we’ve all heard that, you know, saying like, do you want to be right? Do you want to be happy? I think considering the consequences is, most people, if they’ve been in conflict with their spouse, they can predict what are the things that are going to create that conflict. Right? So one of the exercises, I always take my clients through and I’m sure you do something similar too, is just identify what are your triggers, right? Like just knowing ahead of time what they are. And then, you know, really thinking about when this trigger happens, this is what I do. This is what he does. This is what happens. And you can go all the way down the line through all the steps.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And I think just knowing this is how it plays out over and over and over again. Do I want that? Do I want that, or can I intentionally choose a different response right now to create some different results? I think this is so important. I find that, you know the weekends, well I guess now given how we’re living like the weekends are every day, every day is a weekday. But you know those days where you have a lot of opportunity to be in each other’s presence, right? That when you think about the day, how you want the day to go, if you’re with someone all day, all weekend, whatever the case may be, how do you want that day to go? Because a lot of times, if you think about that ahead of time and know if I don’t handle this the way I will feel proud about handling it, this is going to be the consequence.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
We’re not going to talk to each other for the rest of the day. The plans we might’ve had will be ruined. He’ll be upset. I’ll be upset. We’ll have this tension in our home, this tension among our family and a weird dynamic in front of our children. Like all the things, right? You know what all the things are. And so when you put those in the forefront of your mind, sometimes that’s all you need to just make a different decision because what’s more important to you in that moment is your peace, is ease in the day, and less tension.
Maggie:
Love it. Consider the consequences. So important. I talk about what is the result you want to create, right? It’s like, will this reaction help you create that result. Ok, let’s go to assess the importance. And I’m really excited to talk about this cause you and I, one thing that I love about us is we’ll have some sort of similar concepts that we come at from totally different angles, but we’re really going to the same place. And this is one of them. So tell us about asses the importance.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yeah. So here’s the thing about our brains. I think our brains mistakenly make everything super important. And a lot of times when we have those trigger moments or we have those things in our marriage that frustrate us, that continue to create aggravation. In those moments, it literally feels like the most important thing that we can’t see past it. We can’t see around it. We can’t see through it. That it’s like the big elephant in the room that has to be tackled. And whenever you’re feeling like an intense, like immediate need to do something, that’s for sure an indication to slow down and think about like, how important is this? Truly? The question that I ask is when you are 99, will this matter.
Maggie:
I love it. That is the best. When you’re 99, will this matter?
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Probably not, probably not. So I think it’s just a fun way, right? Simple and fun and accessible, it’s a fun way to just really think about that. Like, is this that important right now that I’m not going to get over it? I’m not going to have a more productive way of thinking about it and like how important is it?
Maggie:
Yeah. I love that so much. So I have an episode called The Anger Scale where basically anger scales on a scale of 10 to one where one is the least and 10 is the most like how much does this matter? And if you picked, let’s say anything that’s a six or above, we’re going to decide that matters. Then we gotta do something about it. But anything that’s under six, we do nothing. I remember telling one of my friends and I developed this concept, The Anger Scale, and she’s like, what do you mean do nothing? I’m like, yes.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yes. People think like doing nothing is like the worst thing. It’s like, how is it ever going to change if I do nothing? Like, let’s just try it out and see it.
Maggie:
Yeah, it’s like guess what, the fights you don’t start have an impact.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yeah, exactly.
Maggie:
So assess the importance very important when you are 99 or this matter. Love it. Now the next letter in the calm down method is L for love. And of course I love this part. I love all of them.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
I know we both love this part. I think like if we were ever to like collaborate or write a book, it would be like leading with love, what would love do, like, we could literally write a book of a hundred questions that include the word love. Right? And so I think one of the things that we don’t always recognize is love is literally the most powerful emotion. And in a trigger situation, usually the emotions that are leading the way are anger, fear, right? Frustration, aggravation, you go down the list. And if we can find what is the most loving thing I could do, and it’s not always the most loving thing I could do for my spouse.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Because in that moment, you might not be able to access loving and kind feelings towards him, but it could just be as simple as like what’s the most loving thing I could do for myself. And a lot of times I think why this approach was so important for me to develop is that when we don’t calm ourselves down, when we do respond to the trigger and that knee jerk reaction, we experience so much guilt and shame and regret on the other side of it. And that is unloving to ourselves, right? It’s unloving to ourselves to do something that we then beat ourselves up for and I feel awful about.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And so if we can just keep in the forefront of our mind, like love, like this could be solved by love. If you just like leaned into that, what I’m actually feeling in my body and the upset and the aggravation I’m feeling can be solved by love. And how can I choose that in this moment?
Maggie:
I love it so much. And we have, the second episode of this podcast is The Five Power Questions. And one of the questions is what would love do now? Or what would the energy be that you want to embody? So it could be, well, the generosity do now, what would kindness do now? What would power do now? Like if I was a powerful woman in charge of my reactions, how would I react right now? Okay. Make the best of it, that’s the M in calm. Tell me about making the best of it, Chavonne.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yeah. So I think every moment of our lives is the opportunity to see something as a challenge or something as an opportunity. I think about the times that we are in now, right? Both with the COVID pandemic, both with all the racial unrest. And it is very easy to see unexpected situations as a challenge and like a closed door to what you were trying to do or what you’re trying to achieve. And I think when we can look at something and say, okay, this is what it is, right. A lot of times we are fighting with reality to borrow, you know, a concept from Byron Katie is that we are looking at something, wanting it to be different and spending all of our time focused on how it should be, how it’s not what we want, how we’re unhappy or frustrated instead of asking the question, okay, what is the opportunity right now?
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
I think, you know, I’m sure you talk about this on your podcast of how like sometimes negative emotions of being frustrated with something is actually pointing you in the direction of what you desire. And so if you can just keep that in mind, like this doesn’t have to be the worst thing. This doesn’t have to be something that I get so angry about, but it can be a reminder of what I do want. And then how do I move in the direction of what I do want, how can I make the best of what’s here right now to move me forward towards something better.
Maggie:
I love that so much. So when I talk about make the best of it, the way I frame it is no one can be perfect, but everyone can be excellent. Yeah. So it’s like, perfection is not really possible for humans. Maybe it’s possible for God, whatever created us to be perfect, but we are very imperfect people and it’s like, excellence is always available to, so in this moment you can be excellent, inthe next moment you can be excellent and it’s going to evolve over time as to maybe yesterday, I was excellent at a different way than I will be tomorrow, but I’m making the best of it and every moment, right. And I think it’s so important to make the best of it. It doesn’t mean be perfect at it. It just means do the best you can right here and now. Yeah. Okay, good. We did the calm in calm down. Now we’re going down. Okay, decide from the future.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yeah. This is such a good one. So I think it’s important for the listeners to know that I, you, both of us are actually married, right? We are not immune from the triggers, we are not immune from the frustrations. And so when I think about this one decide from the future. This is one that I personally, even in the season right now I’m super, super conscious of. And I think for me, it is always thinking about the ideal, that five star marriage, how am I acting? What am I thinking? What am I doing in that state? Right. And so deciding from the future is really taking yourself there and being that person now. So I’ll take this super sort of tangible for people. I, like you Maggie, I’m like a ball of personality. I’m very energetic. I like a lot of connection.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
I’m an extrovert and my husband is a little bit more introverted. And so what I find is like, sometimes I’ll invite him to do things like, Hey, do you want to watch this movie together? Right. Like so excited about it. It’s like the best thing. And he’s like, okay, sure. Okay. Right. And for a while I would take that as like, Oh, he’s not really that interested because his enthusiasm didn’t match mine. Right. And I think for a lot of us, when we feel like our spouse isn’t as enthusiastic about something as we are, we then retreat. Right. You withdraw like, well, if you don’t really want to do it fine, I won’t ask you anymore. Right.
Maggie:
Mind you, in that example, he actually said, yes. I have like, well, not all my clients, but let’s say 80% of my clients have been through some things similar. And I talk about this all the time. It’s like, wait, did you forget that he said, yes? I’m not going to ever ask him again, but he said, yes, take the yes.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
I know, right? Because the lens, right. The lens was rejection. The lens is like, oh, he’s not as excited so he’s just doing it out of obligation. I don’t want you to do anything out of obligation. And so in this moment, though, when you are deciding from the future and you were deciding from this place of feeling super connected, super engaged with each other, you do the activity. You don’t retreat, you lean in and you still bring all of your enthusiasm, all of your excitement for this opportunity to connect with him. So I think it’s such a great tool for decision making when your default is to sort of lean back and withdraw. It’s sort of like, okay, if I have what I want, if I could believe that he really does want to connect with me, then what would I do?
Maggie:
I love that so much. And in the notes for the calm down tool, you said, if you and your spouse had an ideal and extreme [inaudible] relationship with each other, which is what I call the five star marriage, the five star relationship, how would you handle this? And I think that’s such a great future to decide from. So I’ll link in the show notes to the episode of The Five Star Marriage, because here’s the thing. I know a lot of people listening to us right now, don’t even know how to visualize that future because it’s such not a match for their current present. And I want to really give our listeners that this is a future you could have if you make the decisions that go along with that future.
Maggie:
Right. But you have to first envision the future and then decide from that future over and over and over and over and over and over again right? Now, as you were sharing, decide from the future, I was thinking, I could just imagine someone taking like copious notes right now. You are going to send us the link, we’re going to put it in the show notes so people can download the whole calm down method with the questions to ask yourself for each of these steps, right? I just want to give some comfort because I can just imagine someone right now thinking, Oh my God, this is so good. I need to have this.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yes, absolutely. Yes. You will have the very document I am referring to in your own inbox, any moment you choose.
Maggie:
Okay, perfect. So we’ll make sure to link to that. Okay. So we’re going down and now we’re in the O, which is own your part. You know how much I loved that, I love all of them, but you know how much I love ownership.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
It’s literally, it’s like the life game changer and the thing that I think most of us want to avoid the most, right? So when you are being triggered, it is very easy to believe that again, it’s the other person’s fault. They’re doing something that is causing you to feel a certain way. And so when you are able to look at all sides of the situation, right? Like he said, this, he did this, I felt this way. I did this. Right. And you look at yourself, right? You look at, where am I making this a problem for myself. Right. I think so much of the time when we’re looking at our husbands as the problem, we can never fix it.
Maggie:
Yes, it’s this interesting paradox because one of my clients, a couple of weeks ago, she said it was so much easier when it was his fault. And we both started laughing because we were talking about this, about her taking ownership over a situation. And she was like, it’s so much easier when it was his fault. Cause she didn’t have to do anything then, right? But it’s like easier and harder at the same time. Yeah. And I always say, there’s a hard, that leads to harder. So if you always make it his fault, it gets harder and harder and harder. But there’s a hard that leads to easier. And that’s when you own your part.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Literally Maggie, we kind of share the same mind because I was, that was exactly how I was going to frame it. It’s like the hardest part of owning your responsibility is just the hurdle of making the shift in your mind. But once you say, Oh, I see my role in this. I see how I can make this easier for myself. I see how I can reduce the impact of this on me. It’s so much easier.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
But, it’s this weird thing that sometimes we want to be very attached to making the other person the issue, which keeps us locked in this place of not being able to move ourselves forward. And so when you do own your part, you can look at yourself and say like, well, where am I placing my needs above his needs? And how could they both co-exist do we have to be in conflict about this? Is there another way around this? What could I do to make this easier for myself, for him, for us, for everyone involved.
Maggie:
And I love owning your part because owning your part doesn’t mean, let someone walk over you if you feel strongly about a situation, right. Owning your part is this is something I value. It’s really important. And I’m not going to wait for this person to agree or disagree. I’m going to make sure that I prioritize it. And then I’m going to bring that into the relationship and see, right. Okay. This is a perfect segue to win the right fight.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Man, this could probably be its own separate episode. So here, I think so much of the time when couples are in conflicts, when you know, a wife is very unhappy in her marriage, she is internally fighting with her husband right in her head, out of her mouth. Right? All of the things. He is the enemy, he is the problem again. And that’s where the fighting is happening. And a lot of times, and this is something that we uncover with awareness, right? Of just knowing what are my own internal struggles, like what are my own internal issues that I’m bringing along with me, to the majority of these trigger situations. And so what I mean by that is all of us carry, you know, one of our mentors talks about carrying the heavy bag.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
It’s just the thing that is our lens that’s shaped by so many experiences, even before we got married. So those things look like rejection, and it looks like needing to be right, and it looks like fear of abandonment. And so a lot of times when we feel like we’re being triggered or feel uneasy in our relationship, it’s usually because what is happening is pushing one of those buttons.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And so again, the easier thing to really address that you have full control over are those things within yourself, right. Which is why one person really can make the difference in shifting a relationship. And so if you really focus on, you know, again, back to that experience of inviting your husband to do something that he’s sort of like says yes, but it’s not what the enthusiasm, right. It was having the awareness that my lens is just rejection. Right. So anytime he isn’t saying yes, I’m going to find the rejection in that.
Maggie:
Oh wow, fascinating. I just had this moment where I saw that just listening to you, I’m going to find the rejection in the yes, even when it’s a yes, because I’m looking for a rejection. Yes, exactly. So powerful.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And so again, I think what this enables you to do is to solve for the right problem. It’s not the problem is not the fact that he didn’t say yes and turn a cartwheel and like do all the things you wanted him to do. Yeah. The problem is you have this lens of always looking for rejection of always looking for where his love is absent. And so, if you began to cultivate within yourself one your own self acceptance, but two, to like flip the switch and really believe and cultivate the thoughts that help you to see that you actually are accepted. That is the right fight to be fighting when you have these moments.
Maggie:
I love that so much. And it’s yet another way we sort of, it’s almost like we take different highways, but we’re going to the same city. So win the right fight, the way I like to describe it is just go for the root cause. Stop solving for the symptom and find what is the root cause? What is the elemental thing? So in this case, it’s like, if I have a thing, my thing is abandonment, right. I grew up without my dad and my dad chose a different life. And I grew up thinking men leave. That was the overriding thing. And, being left behind or unchosen, you know, is a hot button for me, which obviously I’m aware of, I’ve done a lot of work on, but that doesn’t mean that just because I know that it’s a hot button, it doesn’t get pressed.
Maggie:
Right. I always tell my clients, like I don’t live on a mountain, I live with the same stuff that we all go through. I just use my tools to help myself process through those things when they happen. Right. So I just think win the right fight is like, let’s figure out which fight we’re in. And I feel like the show notes of this episode are going to be off the hook. You’re gonna be able to download the calm down tool. I’m going to link to a bunch of episodes that we’ve referenced so far. And this one I would link to The Five Why’s, which is super simple, but it’s just ask why over and over again, until you are really clear on what is the right fight and then solve for that.
Maggie:
I love that so much. Something else about winning the right fight that I love and the questions that people will get when they download this is, how can you engage your spouse as an ally in winning thre right fight. And how can you do that as a team? And, you know, I’m all about team and how can we be on the same team and how important it is to really solve problems as one unit, as opposed to, as two individuals. And I teach that in Team Versus Alliance, like an alliance is like, oh, sometimes we might be aligned, but sometimes we’re not right. And those marriages are not strong. And usually you don’t have a delicious, delightful time being married, but the marriage is that our teams that work together to win the right fight. Those are the marriages that are not just strong, but they’re fun to be in.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yeah. And I think to be able to do that, to enlist your, you know, your spouse is an ally, you really do have to own your own part, right? Like you’ll never know to do that if they’re the only problem, because then you’re just placing all the blame on them. So when you can say, all right, this is an issue for me, this is a thing that is just a tender spot in my experience in life. And I carry it with me and I’m working through it, but I need your help. And it’s owning your part and also willing to be vulnerable. And to say like, this is what I’m contributing. This is how I’m adding to this being a problem for me.
Maggie:
I love that you said this is a tender spot. I love that phrase. And I also love that you said, I need your help. Because something that I see also is most of our listeners are not married to jerks most of our listeners when we go to our spouses and we say, I need help. They’re like, sure, how can I help? They’re willing. They might be clumsy and messy. Help in ways that isn’t what we envisioned when wee asked for help in the first place. But they want to, they have the desire to.
Maggie:
If you’re married to someone that when you are tender does not respond to that bid for connection to that bid for support, then that’s a different problem. And you still want to be winning the right fight and figure that out. Why is that happening? Right. So I think that’s really important. I was like, well, I always want to show it to be about having a stronger marriage where people who want to be married to each other, but I also want to make it clear. Like there are times when you do all these things and you’re like, this person is just not interested in meeting me halfway or even a third of the way, or even at all. And we can make decisions about that too. Right?
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yeah. I, a thousand percent, I was actually just today spending a lot of time thinking about that because it’s super important. And I think one of the things that is sort of an essential component of this working for you, right. Is one being able to go to your spouse and trust that they are willing to meet you at some level. Again, just like you said, it’s not going to look exactly how you want it. They may ask a thousand questions in the process that trigger you to be defensive in a tender moment. Right. So you have to just be aware though, and really begin to ask yourself, like, is this a person I can work this process with?
Maggie:
Yeah, totally, totally. I think that’s so important that brings us to the end, which is nip it in the bud. Yeah. And one of the questions you include is, what would you need to think or do in order for this no longer to be an issue for you? Imagine your spouse does not need to change. It’s one of the themes of our podcast. And then it’s your responsibility to create a new normal for yourself. How can you shift the way you see this perspective? So important. It’s one of the keys to a five day marriage is perspective. How can you shift the way you see this? And what would it take for this to not be a big deal anymore? So tell me about nipping it in the bud. Like especially the person who resistant to nip it in the bud. Tell me about that.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Listen, right? So here’s the thing I know we started off saying like the triggers happen and you have your like knee jerk reaction to it. I also believe that you can have more of a conscious awareness of the triggers that you choose. Yes. So yes. Owning your part. Yes. Fighting the right fight. But also, yes. Do you want this to be a problem? Right? I think again, we live in a society that tells us so often about the things we have to be worried about the things we have to get upset about.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And I was working with a client who came to me and she was like, I’m just not in love with my husband right now. And she thought it was like a big problem that would never be fixed. And so we coached on it and she decided ultimately right, with this new opportunity to decide your triggers, that it wasn’t a big deal right now. That maybe this is just the moment in time where she’s feeling this way towards him.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
It doesn’t mean that she doesn’t still love him as the father of her children as a partner. But that she was focusing more on just building a friendship, building likability with each other, seeing the tension, reducing the arguments. And they’re doing so fantastic now, and so I think because we’ve been so conditioned to think certain things are problems in the marriage. This step gives you the opportunity to redefine what is a problem. And if you don’t want it to be a problem, guess what? It doesn’t actually have to be a problem. You can nip it in the bud by managing your own thoughts about it, by managing your own expectations of this situation in your marriage. And literally by your own conscious design, it can no longer be a problem.
Maggie:
I think that that’s something that my listeners that listen to all the episodes will be like, yep, I’m totally on board with that. And I think if this is the very first episode of The Marriage Life Coach Podcast that you’ve ever heard, just stick with me. Stick with me because we are immersed in a culture, right? So I would say we record the show, I’m American, it’s in the modern American culture where, like you said, it’s like, there’s an image of what a marriage should be.
Maggie:
That’s been implanted in our brains from how we grew up from what was around us of all these different things. Right? And then it’s like, what if I always say, what if marriage is just what you decide is going to be, right. I want everybody to decide to go five star and have it be amazing. Cause I think that’s the best way to live, but it’s like what if you get to decide and within that decision, what if you don’t put all your emotional eggs in one basket?
Maggie:
I think that’s an important part of nip it in the bud is also like, Oh, my partner should be funny and delightful and adventurous and want to do this with me. It’s like, what if your partner is just your partner. And there’s other needs you have, and we don’t deny them. And we don’t pretend they’re not there. We just realize that your partner cannot possibly meet all of them for you. And you cannot possibly meet all of them for your partner. And so you can find the middle ground where you can be partners. And long term love doesn’t always have to be like fireworks and waterfalls.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yes. Skipping in the park with the butterflies.
Maggie:
Like this person that said I’m not in love with my husband, I’m so curious what she thought being in love was supposed to be as opposed to, oh, I’m devoted to him. I want him to be happy. I want him to be well, of course I want his greatest happiness. Oh. And he’s also a great dad and oh, I also admire him like, guess what? To me you’re loved plenty.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And I think that was it. I think it was like looking for the fireworks, the like electricity when he walks in the room. And they have two small children, I want to say they had like twins, four year old twins. And so like at the time in their life, it’s like sometimes just making sure everyone is safe in the home, that looks like love right now.
Maggie:
That’s exactly right. That’s what love is today. I love that so much. So that is the last letter in the calm down message. I’m just going to read back. So consider the consequences, assess the importance, love, make the best of it, decide from the future, own your part, win the right fight, and nip it in the bud. And you do these things, It’s really true, what we talked about at the beginning of the episode. Even if you just do one of these things, just pick one. In fact, everyone listening, just pick one, practice that one for the next week and just see what happens, right. You don’t even have to do all of them. I love that so much. What do you want to add? Anything else you want to add Chavonne, before we wrap up for today?
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
I think it’s just underscoring that this is about you showing up as the person you want to be. And so when you think about how you’ve been managing triggers previously, the consequences of that, how you feel personally within yourself, the impact on the connection with your husband, do you want it to be better, right? Yes. Do you want it to be better?
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
And if you do again, just like Maggie offered, this is an invitation to do it better, right? Like these are the tools, this is something you can try and give your best to and see, see how it works for you. Try one, try them all, go on a little shopping spree with these eight pieces and see, right? Like how much of a difference it makes for you in terms of you presenting yourself and showing up as a person that you can be proud of, even in tough, challenging moments and see what impact it has on your marriage.
Maggie:
I love that so much. So tell us how people can find you Chavone, they want more.
Dr. Chavonne Perotte:
Yes, absolutely. So you can find me on my website, it is DrChavonne.com. And I know we will link to it in the show notes, but this particular download is on that same website, DrChavonne.com/calmdown.
Maggie:
I love that so much. And Chavonne was on before and we talked about this awesome concept. We both have two concepts that involve tables, but they’re very different tables. And we’re going to link to your first episode with us too. And I was telling Chavonne earlier that she is tied now with my husband, as the guest has been on the most because they both been on twice. And it’s so fun because now my husband’s like, well, I need to come back on now we’re in the race.
Maggie:
And I’ve asked you to come back again. So look out, there’ll be another, it’s like a trilogy, it’s like Star Wars. Like the three Chavonne episodes. So fun. Thank you so, so much for sharing your wisdom, for sharing your tools, for sharing new and different ways for people to connect. I really feel so deeply that like you said, love is the answer to every problem. And the more that we are able to teach people how to love themselves, how to love each other, a well loved person goes out into the world and only does good. Right?
Maggie:
And so what we do, you know, you guys listen to us and you’re listening, thinking about, oh, I’m doing this for my marriage, I want my home life to be better. I really want you to realize that every time one of us makes our home life better, we make the whole world better for everyone. And I’m just so grateful Chavonne for all the work that you do and for sharing some of your time and wisdom with us so thank you. Thank you for having me.