Maggie
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Marriage Life Coach Podcast. I am so delighted today to have my good friend and client, Melanie Childers, joining us. She is a master coach for feminist entrepreneurs who are committed to changing the world for women. She helps women disrupt their internal patriarchy so they can scale successful businesses that support themselves and their communities without burning out. And she is a member of the very first round of the Marriage MBA and is here to talk about her experience with that and so many other things that we’re going to dig into. I want to talk a little bit before we get started on internalized patriarchy so we can have a definition of what that is sort of moving forward. One of the things I try to do in the podcast is really dismantle how we think about marriage, make marriages that work for us in our current time and our current moment in history. And really rethinking what we want marriage to be so that it just works for all of us. And that’s going to be different for each person. So I love having Melanie’s brain here to share those disruptive ideas, how she does it in business, and then how we do it together in marriage. So thank you, thank you. Thank you for being here.
Melanie Childers
Yay. Thank you so much for having me. It truly is my honor. I just love you. And I love everything you do. So thank you for having me.
Maggie
Oh, my gosh. Okay, so tell us first before you get started about that internalized patriarchy, like, how would you define that? Or if you know, I know, we talk about it a lot sort of behind the scenes and I know a lot of people know what that is. But I also think, I think I know what that is, but do I know? So how would you define it to someone who maybe has never heard that term before?
Melanie Childers
Sure. The way that I think about it is that we live in a culture that has consistently valued white, male, rich, powerful as like the standard. And everyone else who falls outside of that standard is sort of subjected to this perfect way in which we’re supposed to show up in the world. And we hear those messages through media, through news, through who gets promoted and who doesn’t, through expectations of us. And then we internalize all of that, okay, and use it to keep ourselves in a tight little box of what the patriarchy thinks we’re supposed to be like. So it ends up looking a lot like self doubt, perfectionism, feeling like you’re not good enough.
Maggie
Yeah, second guessing your decisions.
Melanie Childers
Second guessing yourself, 100%. And so to me, my work is really to help women unpack all of the things, all the messages that they’ve been told and internalized and now use against themselves to keep them from all of the huge impact that they truly want to have in the world. Because that’s what we really get scared of. It’s like, okay, I’m ready to go have my impact, I’m ready to go make a difference in the world. Oh, my God! Everyone’s gonna have thoughts about me, people are going to judge me, I’m not going to do it right. I’ll do it too much this way, or not enough that way. And it’s all just internalized thoughts about who we’re supposed to be. What’s required to show up to do it right and perfectly, and they get in the way of keeping us, it keeps us from where we want to be in the world of the difference that we want to make in the world. And so unpacking all of that is, to me the most powerful thing that we could do.
Maggie
And then you help women who have businesses unpack that and then thrive in their business?
Melanie Childers
Absolutely.
Maggie
I’m asking Melanie so she tells all of you – like I know. But I want all of you to know, too. Beautiful.
Melanie Childers
Yeah so that we’re creating a sustainable business without hustling ourselves and wearing ourselves out and burning ourselves out. Because the patriarchy would love nothing less.
Maggie
That’s right. And the patriarchy is a set of beliefs, right? It’s like who is the patriarchy? I just want to like, make it clear. I have patriarchal thoughts. Even Melanie who teaches this has patriarchal thoughts. It’s the ocean that we swim in that we’re sometimes unaware. And it’s almost like when I think about things in marriage, I’ll think about, you know, one of my friends, I will always remember she said, “Well, my husband should take out the trash. That’s what husbands do.” Any thoughts we have about what a wife does and what a husband does or what a partner should do or what a partner shouldn’t do. They didn’t just come from us, right? They came from the ocean that we swim in, the media, the culture that we see. And one of the things that I think is so important to talk about specifically in marriage is like, okay, we want to be married, what do we want that to look like? And do these roles that we’ve sort of pre assigned, do they even make sense? Or are they a good idea? And if you listen to the podcast for any length of time, you’ll know, for example that I don’t cook, my husband is a chef, I am the assistant. And that’s a very good thing for humanity, right? But if you were to measure my abilities as a wife by how I cook, I’d get a zero. Right? So we need to question, right? Does that role even make sense for whatever it is we have going on? I love that so much. So why did you decide to join Marriage MBA? Tell us a little bit about just that decision process?
Melanie Childers
Yeah, so I really want to speak to the people who already have a great relationship. Because I do. And I had that question myself. I’m like, okay, but I already have a great relationship. Why would I join a Marriage MBA? And my thinking was, and I went and talked to my partner about this, I was like, I have this amazing friend, she has this amazing program. I think it would be really fun. But let me think through, like, what do I want to get from it? And we really, like, we talked about, you know, you and your concepts and this coaching together a lot. And we were thinking through, it’s like, okay, if we have a great relationship, how many stars would we give it?
Maggie
Right? Yes.
Melanie Childers
Is it a five star relationship (because we’re not married yet but) Okay. Well, if it’s, let’s call it like four and a half stars, because it’s great. We love it. But if there was something, some things that we could do one or two or 10%, better, it would be even more powerful, and even better. And so this is, this will be my third time getting married. I’ve done this before. And I have not been a great partner. And I was like, you know what, I really I’ve unpacked and rethought how I want to be in my relationships going forward. And so I’m already a better partner, just from having those — that awareness and that understanding and the way that I’m thinking about myself, but I really want my relationship to be even better. I want to make sure that I’m being the best partner I can be in creating a loving relationship. Because my tendency is to make nice and be polite, internalized patriarchy
Maggie
Right. There it is.
Melanie Childers
And let things fester. And then take action that I don’t want to take that actually puts a fork in my relationship. And so I’m like, okay, I’ve seen the results of my thinking and my action in previous relationships. I don’t want to be that person again. So I’m gonna go find you (I already knew you), but I was like, I want to go sign up for this program because I want to make sure that I’m creating the best relationship I can. I’m being the best partner I can. I’m coming from love as often as possible. And I’m not letting things that would normally create resentment for me, create resentment.
Maggie
So powerful. I love that so much. And it’s like going from good to great, right. It’s like, that space between good and great is one of the most beautiful and powerful places in our lives when we decide we want this to be that amazing.
Melanie Childers
Yeah. I think it’s, it’s so it’s so amazing to be there. And I see that I could have done that in previous relationships. But I was in such a different place. And you were not doing that work yet, either. So
Maggie
Yes, I was not — we were both literally in different places at that time. Yeah, absolutely. So tell me a little bit about some of your favorite, either concepts that we’ve gone through or whether it’s a lesson that you’ve learned or something that you apply. Like, I always like to think about being beefy and like beefy and delicious. So it’s like, what are some of the things that maybe your your top three things that you have taken away from the program so far? So the program is still happening. We’re still in it. So Melanie has graciously agreed to come and just talk about her current experience as she goes through it.
Melanie Childers
Yeah, I have many. I made the list. I came prepared. I think one of the biggest shifts that we have had together is turning complaints into requests. It’s part of your emotional weight loss, right?
Maggie
Yeah, right. Yep.
Melanie Childers
And it’s turning relationships, sorry, turning complaints into requests. And so what used to happen, and I used to, I’ve told you about this before, too, but like, I tend to have these giant cups that I fill and I drink out of the same cup all day long. I just could keep refilling it. Right? And what would happen was that he would take my cup if he saw it out and saw like, just a little bit of something in it. In my mind, I’m not done and in his he’s like, I’m tidying up, right? And he would dump my drink out and put my cup in the dishwasher and I’m like what the hell man? Yeah. I’m still working on that.
Maggie
Yeah, this drink is still in progress.
Melanie Childers
Yeah, it’s still in progress, I’m still using that. And so what it became was okay, if I sit on and complain and get mad about this, I’m going to create resentment for me, which is going to like erode the relationship. So, let me make a request here. Could you please not throw my cup out? Or if you can’t do that, can you please put it in the fridge for me? Assume I’m not done with it. Can we start there? And that that works. Most of the time, and sometimes he likes still accidentally throws it away. But now we can laugh about it. And I think that, that like, laughter and our humor is our superpower. It’s how we got together to begin with. So us being able to laugh at what would have been a resentment, is so huge. It seems little, but it’s the little things.
Maggie
Yeah, it’s the little things right? When we think about something like the Grand Canyon, right? A million million million trillion, I don’t know, to the nth degree drops of water create all of that beauty in that majesty. And in a relationship, it’s like, a million little pricks. It’s so many relationships, it’s not one huge breach of trust, that erodes the relationship to use your word. It’s the million little things that we never dealt with, that sort of very subtly and very slowly, poison the love that is there. So I love that example. Because, and I want to just say this, when you bring something to coaching, like everything is welcome here. So I’ve coached people on the dishes, the cats, the laundry, the dryer, like all these kinds of things that most people would say, well, oh, you know, I shouldn’t even bring that up. And my philosophy is bringing it up, because it’s always the thread that we pull, that leads us to something else. And it’s always and it’s not going to appear like a big billboard in your house saying this is a problem. It’s going to appear like my cup was put away. And if we think about it in a feminist term, or in a patriarchy term, like my agency has been removed, and it’s in such a small and subtle away, and the person is doing it with love, they’re not doing it on purpose, take anything away from you, right? They’re not thinking I’m going to remove her ability to choose on her own behalf. And sometimes also, by the way, it’s us who does that, right? Sometimes we are the ones that say, oh, I think it would be better if we did it this way. And then we remove unconsciously, the ability of that person to say I actually don’t want you to remove that right now. But those little things left untreated, unseen, undealt with, are the things that 20 years later become a problem.
Melanie Childers
Yes, well, and that’s the thing, too, is that the next point, actually, in my list of points was like, this concept of like, a relationship erosion.
Maggie
Yes.
Melanie Childers
And it’s how, like, we literally use that Grand Canyon metaphor. It’s like, it’s this, the small things that create erosion and create rivulets that eventually become a chasm that you can’t bridge. And it’s like, once that really sort of starts and sinks in, then you start piling things on top of it. Like the dog, like the laundry, like the dishes, you know those — house, kids, job. And then it becomes like, you start dealing with the surface layer things and you never get to the real thing that started at all. And those things never get addressed, because there’s always something else on top of it. And it really does become this sort of thing that turns into contempt that you can’t, once you’ve crossed that bridge, like that bridge burns.
Maggie
Yeah. Whoo. Melanie, once you cross that bridge, that bridge burns. Yeah, that’s so true. Um, I love that you said relationship erosion. So Melanie, in her brilliance, came up with that and said, I think this is what this is. And I’m like, yeah, I love it. So good. It’s so good. Okay, what else was on your list?
Melanie Childers
And then the next thing on the list is really like, we I think we are overcoming, pretending.
Maggie
Okay, so let’s pause there for a second. So in the group, I teach something called the emotional weight loss tools. There are two episodes of this podcast, we will link to them in the show notes. That is Emotional Weight Loss and Advanced Emotional Weight Loss. And those two things combined are the Emotional Weight Loss Tools. They are very, very simple. I’m just going to tell you what they are, and then we’re going to talk about them. So the first original ones was: no complaining and no defending. And the second one was: no convincing and no pretending. And those put together are what I call my Emotional Weight Loss Tools. And here’s something I want to clarify or just share with anyone who’s listening now, who loves the podcast and listens to it all the time and is very familiar with these tools and using them already. It’s like in the group, there are no secrets, right? It’s not like I’m going to pull out, “the secret marriage formula.” Right? That is like the Coca Cola formula, right? This is that Coca Cola, there is no secret formula. I’m gonna teach you the same things that I talked about in the podcast, we’re just going to have deeper, richer conversations about it, I’m going to be able to coach you through when you get stuck trying to implement them. And so it’s like a deeper connection of the same things. And I think that’s really important for people to know that it’s like, first of all, we don’t hold things back. If something can help you in your marriage, and I discover it or I see it, I will do an episode on it. I want everyone to have a better relationship. And then, we just talk about it and take it to like the next level in how we apply it to your specific situation when we’re in the groups. So I wanted to explain all those things. Now please tell us your experience of that.
Melanie Childers
Yeah, I love that. We truly do just apply it and take it deeper and deeper and start to like, have deep conversations in our relationship about this stuff. So the concept of no pretending, now, like that was definitely a thing for me. It was like, I’m just gonna pretend that everything’s fine. I don’t want to argue about it. I don’t want to start a fight. I’m tired of fighting about it, or just forget it. I’m just not even gonna deal with this. And that concept of like, we ask each other now: are you pretending right now?
Maggie
I love that. So you literally asked each other?
Melanie Childers
We literally ask each other: okay, let’s stop. Are you pretending right now?
Maggie
So good.
Melanie Childers
And we have this underlying sense of trust and safety, and no expectation of or judgments of your realness. And so it’s like, if you’re pretending, it’s okay, let’s talk about it. If you’re not pretending, okay, great, cool. Whatever you have to bring to the table, you can be real. We can be real with each other. And we let the answer be okay. So a perfect example, and the way that this concept has made our relationship better is that we used to go to the grocery store together. We shop in very different ways.
Maggie
Oh, okay. I love it.
Melanie Childers
He’s like by the list, get in, get out as fast as possible. And I’m like, I have my list, but there are things I know are forgotten. So I’m going to cruise the aisles and just make sure there’s nothing I’ve forgotten. See if I get inspired, I’m like, I’m gonna add that meal to the list this week. Because there will always be something that I forget. And so I’m a lot more leisurely, even in times of COVID and with masks on. I’m still, I’m speeding up a little bit, but I’m still like, I’m here to see like, what do we need? Where he would just go in and get the basics and get out. And so that tension of the different ways that we do groceries, was causing a strain. And then COVID happened this past year. And it was like, he was like, that ramped up his anxiety about it. And he was like, this is not even a pleasurable experience, I don’t want to do it — can we just order them? And I was like, I have an idea. Let’s stop pretending this is the thing that we should do together, maybe it’s not. We don’t have to do this together. You will always say yes and always be nice and try to be a good partner. But going to the grocery store is actually creating friction here. And it’s become a miserable situation for you, which makes it a miserable situation for me. Because I start to get mad at the grocery store. Let’s just stop pretending that going to the grocery store together is a good idea. It’s okay, if you stay home. It’s okay if we make a list together and meal plan together and I go handle it all and you help me when I get back. This is fine. It’s okay, if you’re doing something else, I don’t care, I would rather us not continue to create this friction, than keep offering to do this thing together that we do not enjoy.
Maggie
This is so powerful Melanie because we make so many decisions in our marriages about how we’re going to run things, whether it’s how we do the groceries, or when we do the laundry, or how we do the ways we live life. And we make those decisions maybe when we first get together, maybe when we don’t even know each other that well sometimes, maybe when we have different jobs, different roles, different businesses that we’re running, whatever it is we have going on. And one of the things I always encourage everyone to do is just question every once in a while. It’s like a tune up, right? We got our car tuned up. Let’s get the marriage tuned up. Is this still working, right? And I love that you gave such a vivid example of something that you could have 20 years of arguments over, or you could just change it. That’s it, right? Yeah. So for everyone listening, whatever your version of the groceries is: think about that thing, and maybe it’s time to question it.
Melanie Childers
Another one that we did was like, going to parent’s houses. Like his mom lives in town, and I’m not, I have no interest in going up there. My family lives two and a half hours away, he has no interest in making that trip. And we just allow that to be okay without any resentment or any pressure. And when they ask questions, we answer, and it’s really okay that you don’t want to go, it’s fine. It’s not a problem.
Maggie
What is your thought about it that allows it to be okay, because I know parents in law or family obligations and things like that is something that is such a point of contention for so many couples, and can be so challenging to navigate and something that I coach on all the time. So what is your thought that says, is it just, and is it as simple as, it’s okay if we don’t want to go and we don’t have to go?
Melanie Childers
Yeah, sometimes it really is that simple. Yeah. And sometimes I think through like, it’s okay, if you want to have a different experience. I love that. And I know I can trust myself to answer my parents questions.
Maggie
Right! Yeah.
Melanie Childers
Well, why isn’t he showing up? Well, doesn’t he like us? Well, and it’s like, yes, of course he likes you. Yeah, sitting in the car is deeply uncomfortable for him physically and emotionally.
Maggie
Yeah. So then two hours back and forth is not going to be a fun time for him.
Melanie Childers
Yeah. Six hours in the car is going to be miserable. Do you actually want him here if he’s miserable? I don’t think you really do. If you want to have a great time with him, maybe we meet in Atlanta. Or maybe you come to our house. And maybe like, we still have a trip to Scotland planned together whenever we can travel again. That’s definitely going to happen. But the little pieces of showing up in this way. I actually really enjoy like, riding by myself. It’s not a problem.
Maggie
Yeah, so it’s like the main idea is: question your assumptions, right? It’s like, oh, all family events must include all members of all family, no matter what, no matter whether they want to be there or not, or whether it causes them suffering or not, or whether it’s something they, you know, maybe shouldn’t even be doing for health reasons, right? We twist ourselves into pretzels both figuratively and sometimes even literally, to meet these invisible expectations that when we pause to question them, like, why are we even doing this, Right? One of the ways my husband I talked through some of those things are what are the must haves and what are the nice to haves? And I tend to be more introverted and more quiet and need to sort of recharge in that quiet. My husband’s also introverted, but he grew up with a very big family and is used to lots of family events. And that’s just… he navigates them very well, because he’s used to them. So he’ll also take some time and sit aside or go outside and take a walk and then come back. And so when we first got married, I really wasn’t sure how to navigate that. So I grew up with a single mom, and we didn’t have all these, all the cousins everywhere. I love all the cousins, but I don’t necessarily want to go to every single event, right? Sometimes I need a nap. And so we talked about what is a nice to have, and what is the must haves, like oh, this is a really important day, it’s so and so’s birthday, we definitely want to be there. You know, whatever that must have is. Oh, this is nice to have, this isn’t so important. If you want to just chill, that’s fine. And then, in that way, we are able to have those conversations about those things. And it’s not something that we get super emotional about. Now with COVID, that’s been a little bit different. We’ve had to call them like U.N. Peace Treaties, where we’ve had to decide, you know, what we’re going to do and how we’re going to do it and where we’re going to be and all of those things. That’s probably a topic for another episode. But just the idea that we can discuss it at all, then when it does become something that’s a little more challenging to discuss, it is easier because you have so much practice at this level talking about the groceries or talking about the visit to the parents. It’s so good. Okay, I just want to follow your list. You tell me. What’s next?
Melanie Childers
Those were really the big things. The thing that we’ve talked through the most recently is like being in the shame blame drama triangle, which is another concept that you talked about. My tendency is to be the hero, which is no surprise because the way the presence way out is the coach, so I was like, of course. And not wanting anyone to feel anything bad.
Maggie
Yeah. So the drama triangle is just a something from psychology that is called The Karpman Drama Triangle. You can look at the Wiki. I talked about it in our group and I also talked about it in the Marriage Makeover Live — I sort of touched upon it as well. It’s just something that is really a good useful frame to think about the lens through which we’re participating in the activities of our lives. So we will link to The Marriage Makeover Live Bundle if you want to get that, you can get that in the show notes. Yeah. And that’s just so powerful. So in that triangle, there’s an empowerment triangle. And there’s a drama triangle and in the empowerment triangle, you said that you show up as a coach, which is like that person who mentors and helps get things done. When we’re in drama about it, that mentor or coach becomes a rescuer. And oftentimes, what I see a lot of my coaching practice is a rescuer who is over functioning, overworking, overwhelmed, and often very exhausted or very close to burnout because they’ve just taken everything on.
Melanie Childers
Yeah. And again, like this is another piece of patriarchy is people pleasing? We don’t want people to feel bad and so we take on and try to make everything better. And so we ended up overwhelming ourselves and exhausting ourselves. And that’s definitely how I would show up in my relationships, because that’s what I learned from, you know, growing up and from culture. And, you know, being able to go, oh, I’m trying to rescue you from bad feelings has me like, holding my own boundaries in a really solid way where I can be compassionate, but I’m not trying to rescue. And I think that, that is huge. Because I think that, that dynamic creates like a caretaking situation. And we’ve both been in those relationships before and we’re like, how do we not do that again? Because that actually created a really unpleasant relationship over time.
Maggie
Yeah. So let’s just pause a moment there and just define what you mean by caretaking just for everyone to listen, for everyone who’s listening. So, tell us what you mean by that.
Melanie Childers
So what I mean is twofold. It’s really like, physically caretaking — making myself responsible for his physical comfort. He’s got some chronic health issues. And like emotional caretaking, that’s like, let me let me shield you or help you feel better when you are sad or frustrated or angry. It’s like no, I actually can allow him to have all of his feelings about pain or about his family or about whatever’s happening in the world. And I can be okay, I can like, hold the space and allow him to have his thoughts and feelings. I don’t have to try to make it better.
Maggie
So I love that distinction, and I think it is very important. So we might use a term like mutual caretaking when we’re talking about friendship, where it’s mutual, there’s an equitable sort of distribution of how the caretaking is taking place. And so in a friendship, I always like to call them sexy besties. That’s like, the ultimate way we want to think about it is like, are we sexy besties? Do we get along, help each other, and have a physical connection that is satisfying to both of us? Where caretaking, what it sounds like, I would take it if I was looking at this is when it becomes parental. When it becomes for a parent to take care of a child and shield them from something that could be dangerous or shield them from an experience that there may be they’re too young to have, or something like that, that is very different than being friends and supporting each other through a thing as two equals going through life, versus where someone is in a sort of hierarchical (which brings us back to the patriarchy) hierarchical and parental type role. So the way I like to think about it is: like the mom role and dad role, unless it’s like a sexy, kinky thing that you’re into that is like for that reason, any other reason is not useful in a relationship and we should question it. if we feel like we’re mommying or if we feel like we’re being parented, that’s like a yellow flag that we want to question. Again, unless it’s for some kind of sexy kinky thing. That’s okay. Okay, cool. So one of the things I always like to ask when we talk about coaching is, we will inevitably find things about ourselves that are not delightful. Right? And how do you handle that? Or like, how do you approach it? If you’ve discovered something where like, oh, I was the one who did this thing. Share a little bit about that, if you can?
Melanie Childers
Yeah. I think the biggest thing that I’ve sort of discovered that I don’t, I’m not super delighted about myself, was like: how I created like the downfall of previous relationships and taking responsibility for my thinking, for my decisions, for the way that I showed up. And yes, it’s a 50/50 thing, for sure. But my taking responsibility for that, at first, because my tendency is to blame and beat myself up and shame myself (another tool of the patriarchy, 100%). And so seeing like, oh, okay, I can take responsibility for this, and ownership for what I created, and I can have feelings and be sad about it. But judging and shaming and beating myself up, will not help me create something new in this relationship. And so now what I’m finding is more and more compassion for who I’ve been, and more and more compassion in my daily life for myself, which helps me find more compassion for him, more compassion for the way that we show up. And I think I’m just so much more curious now and so much more willing to grow and willing to… I call it like seeing all my own bullshit. I’m much more willing to see it, and not beat myself up for it. But to accept it as, yep, this is human, what is there for me to learn?
Maggie
I think that’s so important and so powerful. I feel like we can heal through anything if we can look at it with love and compassion, no matter what it is. I really feel like the moment that we can just accept part of ourselves are messy or disappointing, or, you know, the darker side and the lighter side. And we could just say, hey, I’m human and I have both, right? And normalize that. And one of the intentions for me, definitely, and leading the group is to just say, hey, we all do wacky things every now and then, like, welcome to humanity and let’s keep going. Okay. What would you say is something — oh you said you talked to your partner, so what does your partner think about the work that we’ve been doing?
Melanie Childers
Oh, my God. He absolutely loves it. So I asked him this question directly and what he said was, he said we’re taking something that’s already great, and just adding more strength to it. And he actually used the system, the concept that I got from you is like, the deeper the foundation, the taller the building you can build.
Maggie
Yes.
Melanie Childers
He said the exact same thing. He was like, we’re building a deeper and deeper foundation. We’re putting in deeper and deeper rebar so we can build a better and better and higher building. That was so great. He loves it. Like we take your book, and we go for a walk and we each pick a question. We go for a walk and talk through each question. And we’ll do it sometimes instead of watching TV, and he’ll be like, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna flip through the book, and you say when for me to stop. And then you’re gonna pick left page or right page, number one or number two.
Maggie
So fun to keep it so random. I love that so much. So one of my favorite, I guess it’s a metaphor is: when you’re building a skyscraper — so just imagine the tallest building that you that you can imagine. With the way that skyscrapers are built, is the taller the building is, the deeper they have to build the foundation in order to sustain how tall that building is. So in our houses where we live, our foundations are pretty shallow, like it’s a one story thing. And it’s not that not that deep, literally, right? But in a skyscraper, it actually goes very, very deep underground, which I didn’t know and was fascinated when I discovered that. And I love that analogy, thinking about a relationship where it’s like, oh, we’re already a great building, we’re solid, we’re great. And we’re building an even deeper foundation, and we’re going to go even taller. So beautiful. I love that so much. And here’s something I want to mention is I’ve had clients on every end of the spectrum. So some of the members of the group, and some of my private coaching clients in the past, would take notes and discuss everything we talked about and share it with their partner, and that’s great. And some of the members of the group and some of my private coaching clients, I don’t even know if their partner knows they’re even working with a coach at all. And they just do their internal work and show up differently in the relationship and then the partner responds accordingly, right? So I want to just normalize and say Melanie’s in a situation where she shares everything and that’s useful and constructive and delightful for her. And if you’re listening and you’re not in that situation, that’s okay, too. I’ve had every part of the spectrum, and it doesn’t matter.
Melanie Childers
Truly. It just so happens that he’s super excited about this work. And he loves coaching and thought work and changing relationships by changing your own thoughts, and the way that you show up to things and so like after we’re done with our weekly call, he’s like, Okay, what did you learn today?
Maggie
Love it. So good. Okay, so one of the ways I like to start wrapping up is I do the same thing you do. I pick a random question from The Questions for Couples Journal, and I’ll ask you one of them. But is there anything you want to add while I flip through the pages and pick one or two?
Melanie Childers
I just want to tell people, if you want to make your relationship better, and you want wise and loving and compassionate counsel as you do so, and someone to show you your mind, and someone to help you get through your own deep well of bullshit like I have. Maggie Reyes is the person and The Marriage MBA is 100% the program. Because what we get to create there is such a loving and compassionate relationship with ourselves and you just hold the space and create the beauty of the container so beautifully, that we can show up and be ourselves and bring whatever we’re going through and everyone feels so loved and safe. That it truly is one of the most powerful containers I’ve ever been in. And just sign up, just do it.
Maggie
Thank you for that. It’s beautiful. I love that so much. I just did an episode called holding the space. So we’ll link to that in the show notes by the time this comes out. So thank you for that. It’s an honor, I just want to say one of the reasons I’m so glad to have Melanie on, is to talk about the patriarchal influences in our marriage is something we don’t normally think about. And it’s something so interesting that there are so many assumptions we go into our relationships with, that it’s really super powerful when you’re just in a space where you could just question them. And you’re not questioning the relationship, you’re not questioning, you know, necessarily whether you want to be there or not, you’re just like, oh, should we still do it this way? Should we still think about it this way? Is this still useful moving forward? And just having a group of women, that is also making the relationship stronger at the same time, I think is incredibly powerful. Because what happens when you’re not in a coaching container, and I’ve certainly been a person that in a coaching container with problems in life, you meet with your friends, and it just becomes you know, a complaint fest, right? It just becomes this, and it’s not really useful, it doesn’t really move you forward, it doesn’t change anything. And one of my intentions in having this group is having a place where you can just talk about these things and it’s like a given that you want to get better and if you messed up, you want to improve. And it’s a given that you’re looking for solutions. And that’s the assumption that we have going in. And then when you’re looking for them, of course you find them. Okay, ready for your question? This is a fun one: what delights you the most about your relationship with your partner?
Melanie Childers
Oh, my God, one? Everything. But really, it is the way in which we bring creativity and humor to everything. Like even making coffee. So he makes coffee for me every morning because he gets up before I do. And he will put the leftover coffee (because we do like a French press and you can’t just leave it in there). He’ll put a container of coffee for me and write me a note every morning, and it is always hilarious. Sometimes it’s like, drink two and call me in the morning.
Maggie
That’s so good. I can just imagine everyone listening right now and doing a collective, “aww.”
Melanie Childers
Like it really is the cutest thing. I’ll take a picture. I’ve saved them. They’re like on one of our kitchen cabinets so I’ll take a picture and send it to you. But I mean, even just the little things we do with humor and compassion and love. And that I think is the key to our strength in a relationship is that we can truly laugh about anything. And it’s our like, bomb diffuser. It’s like, when things are about to go sideways, it’s like, hold on, do we need to we need to laugh about something dumb?
Maggie
Let’s do that right now. Yes, the life coach approves of that plan, by the way. So Melanie, if people want to find you and follow you and learn more about how to dismantle their internalized patriarchy and especially for business owners, so it’s women who are business owners and service based businesses, right? What’s the best way to stay in touch with you and learn more about it?
Melanie Childers
Yeah, my website is at MelanieChilders.com. And I have a free masterclass there that they can watch for free about: it is called The Unstoppable Feminist Guide to Getting Shit Done.
Maggie
Oh, that’s such a great title. I love it.
Melanie Childers
And it really is about learning how to get out of your own way and to pull yourself out of self doubt, in order to be as productive as you want to be. To get goals reached and businesses’ milestones checked and really scale and really show up in a different way. I also have a podcast that’s coming out. It’s called The Bad Bitch Entrepreneur and that we’ll be releasing later in March, early April.
Maggie
The Bad Bitch Entrepreneur. So we’re gonna link to MelanieChilders.com. And if you go there, when the podcast launches, all the info and everything will be there. So you can listen and subscribe and just really dismantle your internalized patriarchy at a whole new level, in a beautiful way. So thank you. Thank you so much for being here.
Melanie Childers
Thank you. This has been so fun. It’s such a pleasure.
Maggie
And everyone we’ll be back next week with more ways to help you make your marriage a five star marriage. Bye.